Conversation with Rich Handley

Rich Handley, the creator of the beyond-incredible Timeline of the Planet of the Apes has left comments here on the 'blog as well as sending us some email ... Yes, it's a big deal.


I wanted to catch a thread-clip here for posterity, background information and search engine fodder for future Planet of the Apes freaks.




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Email from Rich follows
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Hi, guys,

Two suggestions for when you do your marathon:

1)  If you can, use the extended versions of Conquest and Battle, both of which are currently available on Blu-Ray, (the extended version of Battle is also on DVD), as they're both much better than the versions we've had since the '70s.

2)  After watching the TV series, watch the "old Galen" clips that, unfortunately, were not included on the DVDs. You can find them here:
http://potatv.kassidyrae.com/galenslastappearance.html

Rich




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My response
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Hey Rich,

First and foremost, thanks for your links, attention and postings.  I also deeply appreciate that you've given some thought into helping us have the "optimal" experience.

Before I roll forward, let me back up a bit.

Here's what I think I know about the boxes that're relevant to this conversation (ignoring details like re-mastering):

• There is an extended version of Conquest on the Ultimate Planet of the Apes (UPA) box.
• The extended version of Battle is not on UPA.
• Behind the Planet of the Apes only has one disc in the UPA box, but was released independently as a double disc set.
• The blu-ray editions have extras that are not available in the UPA box.
• There's an ANSA public service announcement (ie. "What is ANSA?" about seven minutes long) that's not available in the UPA box.
• The UPA cartoons don't have the next week's teasers and the official releases do.

There may be some more stuff relative to this, but those are the high points I'm aware of ... It's remarkably difficult to glean some of this information; and the irony here is that while I don't know enough about what's going on, it's possible some fine points may overlap for you and you may know too much!

I'm completely serious when I say that telling you how/what Apes films should be viewed is the equivalent of a kid with a bible telling the Pope how to run the Catholic church, but this is the layout as I see it ...

Personally, I'd like to see the extended versions of the films.  If you're gonna sit down and watch 'em, this is clearly the time ... Even more so when you consider that (and you'll wanna be clutching something when I tell you this) I known I haven't seen all the Ape films but I don't know which ones I've missed.

There is a hassle of flipping back-and-forth between formats, but Special K has a blu-ray player, so it's not that big of a deal.

{Watching the Galen links is an obvious gimme.  Thanks for that, I wouldn't have been able to come up with it on my own.}

BUT (that's my big but) this opens the door to questions like,  "if we watch the extended movies, should we also watch their associated features?"  and if you're gonna do that, should you just go ahead and watch all the blu-ray features instead?  

Really this all begs the larger philosophical question -and the thing that we should actually be focused on- what is it exactly that we're doing?  Because if we're watching the entirety of UPA, then blu-ray is straying off that track -- even if it's "better."

In the high tension world of endurance television we've run across philosophical problems like this before.  What do you do about TV stations that just broadcast radio?  What do you do about On Demand programming? What do you do about cable promotion stations?  What do you do when you're watching the same infomercial for the third time?  etc.

I know that Special K is reticent to view anything non-UPA for orthodox reasons.  I'm a little more reformed than that, so in my mind (which is NOT a direct reflection of anything you would call "reality," even in an Apes Timeline sense of the word), I'd like to see us watch UPA except:

• Watch the second disc of Behind the Planet of the Apes (I picked up a used copy today)
• Watch the blu-ray version of Battle (but not Conquest since an extended version is already there -- even if it's not the blu-ray version)
• Ignore all blu-ray extras
• Watch the Galen extras -- especially if we can figure out where they'd fit in

It's a mildly hybrid-ized version of the perfect UPA world without running into a forbidden zone and being pursued by gorillas with automatic weapons.

Of course I haven't actually told Special K any of this, so it's news to him, but he's use to being mentally slapped in the face by me -- I even suspect he kind of likes it.

But what I am intensely interested in is your take on all this, because, well ...

... you're the Pope,

b1




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Response from Rich Handley -- the answer interspersed in my email.  His responses are left-justified.
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Hi, guys,

At 11:48 PM 3/23/2010, b1-66er wrote:

First and foremost, thanks for your links, attention and postings.  I also deeply appreciate that you've given some thought into helping us have the "optimal" experience.

You're quite welcome!  It's my pleasure.

Here's what I think I know about the boxes that're relevant to this conversation (ignoring details like re-mastering):

• There is an extended version of Conquest on theUltimate Planet of the Apes (UPA) box.
• The extended version of Battle is not on UPA.

Hmmm....I could be wrong, as I have the Blu-Ray set, not the UPA, but I was under the impression the UPA didn't contain the extended editions. In fact, I was under the impression that the extended version of Conquest was ONLY available on Blu-Ray.  (The Blu-Ray boxset has both versions of both films, bythe way, which is cool.)  In any case, I'm definitely an advocate of seeing thelonger versions, as entire (and key) plotlines were removed from Battle, and Conquest's theatrical ending was changed at the last minute to something inferior to how it was supposed to end.  In both cases, the extended versions improve the films immensely.

• Behind the Planet of the Apes only has one disc in theUPA box, but was released independently as a double disc set.
• The blu-ray editions have extras that are not available inthe UPA box.

I believe that's correct, yep.

• There's an ANSA public service announcement (ie. "What is ANSA?" about seven minutes long) that's not available in the UPA box.

You're in luck--I uploaded it to YouTube a while back:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sv9mZqb99Vw

It's a short film, newly shot for Blu-Ray, told in-universe. As such, it's a must-view, and would be watched before Escape since it takes place around thetime that Taylor's crew is leaving.

• The UPA cartoons don't have the next week's teasers and the official releases do.

That I didn't know!  I'm glad I have the version with the teasers, then.  (Granted, that just means watching MORE cartoon, which means going MORE insane.)

There may be some more stuff relative to this, but those are thehigh points I'm aware of ... It's remarkably difficult to glean someof this information; and the irony here is that while I don't know enough about what's going on, it's possible some fine points may overlap for you and you may know too much!

Absolutely--I've been accused of that before. LOL

I'm completely serious when I say that telling you how/what Apesfilms should be viewed is the equivalent of a kid with a bible telling the Pope how to run the Catholic church, but this is thelayout as I see it.

Hahaha!

Personally, I'd like to see the extended versions of the films.

I couldn't agree more, man--it's the way to go. The theatrical versions of both films were incomplete, and shouldn't have been released as they were.  Once you see the longer versions, in fact, it's dissatisfying to watch the original versions.

If you're gonna sit down and watch 'em, this is clearly the time ...

Absolutely.

Even more so when you consider that (and you'll wanna be clutching something when I tell you this) I known I haven't seen all the Ape films but I don't know which ones I've missed.

Wow!  Then this will definitely be a cool experience for you.  But I'm curious, then--if you haven't seen them all, will you fully comprehend what the heck is going on in films 3-5?  I guess we'll have to wait and see.  I envy you--having seen them all WAY too many times, I am unable to try that experiment.

{Watching the Galen links is an obvious gimme.  Thanks for that, I wouldn't have been able to come up with it on my own.}

You're quite welcome, but the real credit goes to Kassidy Rae for hosting them on her excellent TV series site.

BUT (that's my big but) this opens the door to questions like,  "if we watch the extended movies, should we also watch their associated features?"  and if you're gonna do that, should you just go ahead and watch all the blu-ray features instead? 

It's a valid question--I guess it really comes down to a question of what you're setting out to do.  Are you trying to watch the complete POTA universe (at least, complete on film)?  Are you trying to watch everything in that specific boxset?  Or are you trying to fill up 48 hours?  See, I don't think those three goals are incompatible--I think you can do all three, by watching everything you can get your hands on. In the end, you'll have a more enriched viewing experience... and, thus, more likely not to pass out at hour 36.

Really this all begs the larger philosophical question -and thething that we should actually be focused on- what is it exactlythat we're doing?
Because if we're watching the entirety of UPA, then blu-ray is straying off that track -- even if it's "better."

True, there is that... ah, but then you're missing out on superior films.

In the high tension world of endurance television we've run across philosophical problems like this before.  What do you do about TV stations that just broadcast radio?  What do you do about On Demand programming? What do you do about cable promotion stations?  What do you do when you're watching the same infomercial for the third time?  etc.

Excellent points--I don't envy you in having to figure out the answers.  Heh heh.

I know that Special K is reticent to view anything non-UPA for orthodox reasons.  I'm a little more reformed than that, so in my mind (which is NOT a direct reflection of anything you would call "reality," even in an Apes Timeline sense of the word), I'd like to see us watch UPA except:

• Watch the second disc of Behind the Planet of theApes (I picked up a used copy today)
• Watch the blu-ray version of Battle (but not Conquest since an extended version is already there -- even if it's not the blu-ray version)
• Ignore all blu-ray extras
• Watch the Galen extras -- especially if we can figure out where they'd fit in

It's entirely your call, of course!  I'd suggest watching the ANSA film since it's in-universe, though, not a behind-the-scenes type of extra, and if it were me, I'd also watch the Blu-Ray versions of Conquest and Battle, to make sure you've got the extended versions. That way, you could stay as true as possible to your original goal of watching all of the UPA, but you also manage to see theentire story (extended films, "old Galen" footage, ANSA short film). 

Incidentally, the Blu-Ray versions of the films in the boxset also contain a cool feature: in-universe intros to each film by an animated version of the Lawgiver, reading new passages from the Sacred Scrolls.

As for where the old Galen scenes take place, they fall an undefined number ofyears after the final episode of the TV series. Since you're not dealing with comics, novels, audios, etc., you can just watch them directly after the TV series finale.  The entire group of Galen scenes will only take you a few minutes to watch.  It irks me that neither the DVD nor Blu-Ray releases have included them.

It's a mildly hybrid-ized version of the perfect UPA world without running into a forbidden zone and being pursued by gorillas with automatic weapons.

LOL

Of course I haven't actually told Special K any of this,

I'd say you have now...

so it's news to him, but he's use to being mentally slapped in theface by me -- (I even suspect he kind of likes it.

One man's mental slap in the face is another man's happy place.

But what I am intensely interested in is your take on all this, because, well ...
... you're the Pope,

LOL!  Well, my wife might disagree with that sentiment, but thanks.  :)
{...side convwersation deleted...}


Rich